"I hate the fuckin' Eagles". I hate that fuckin' quote. Sure, the scene made me chuckle when I saw The Big Lebowski during its cinematic run, but still. It's glib as fuck, and more than a little bit of shooting fish in the barrel. I get it- the Indian guy loves the Eagles, har har. He loves corporate pap more associated with Middle America Hardi-fuckin'-har. Oh, also: All those Johnny Come Latelies who love the Big Lebowski and quote the movie? Where the fuck were you when that movie ran in theatres? Not out in droves, that's for sure.Me and my buddy Alex quoted that movie right after we saw it, bot unlike all those other goofs who saw it on home video later and decided to turn it into a cult movie. But that glib "I hate the fuckin' Eagles"? Fuck that.
Of course, the Dude not only hates the fuckin' Eagles, he loves himself some Creedence Clearwater Revival, worrying whether the cops will not only find his stolen car, but also the Creedence tapes that were in it. Eagles = bad, CCR = good, we get it, Dude. If you've been reading along on this blog, you know that in the last months I featured both the Eagles and CCR on this blog. So, I got to thinking, which then meant I got to writing which, if all goes well, means you get to reading. Sorry 'bout that. But what better way to start off the new year than with [strokes goatee, adopts Philip Seymour Hoffman-as-Lester Bangs voice from "Almost Famous"] a, ahem, a think piece.
While the Dude didn't expand on his reasons for hating on the Eagles, there are usually three things brought up, directly or indirectly about them: that they were boring and made boring music, that they were soulless commercial merchants, interested in filling their pockets without giving a damn about the music, and that they were inauthentic, country rock fakers turned stadium rock fakers. Now, compare that to CCR: a band beloved by all, the heart of American rock'n'roll. An authentic, American original band playing authentic American music. The Dude loves them, and who wouldn't?
Let's get the first things out of the way: Nothing to say about the boring thing. Personal taste, friendo. You find 'em boring? Your loss, or not. But it's the other two arguments, all so neatly wrapped up in the 'I hate the fuckin' Eagles, man' quote that interest me for a hot minute or two.
I mentioned this is my write-up to Desperado: The Eagles began to introduce themselves as being "from Los Angeles", but none of them were. They were implants from as far east as Detroit, and as rural as Scottsbluff, Nebraska. But you know who is from California? Namely, from El Cerrito in the Bay area? Why, CCR of course. And who wouldn't remember such classics written by John Fogerty as "Born On The Bayou" and "Proud Mary" proudly presenting himself as...from the Deep South. Imagine for a second, if you wheel, the faces of Booker T & the MG's when Fogerty, that white boy from suburban California came into Muscle Shoals. Last I checked there weren't many bayous in El Cerrito. Funny thing, though...you know who has rarely if ever being accused of cultural appropriation, or of faking it? John Fogerty and the boys, that's who.
Let's look at that whole sell out thing for a sec. Did you ever wonder why CCR threw out an average of two albums by year - and a full three in the calendar year of 1969? John Fogerty was somewhat paranoid about the idea that the moment his band would drop out of the charts, it would be the beginning of the end, the band falling almost immediately into oblivion and being forgotten. The solution: Throw out product, product and more product: single after single, album after album. Funny thing, though: You know which band - despite flooding the market with product as if there was no tomorrow - was rarely if never accused of only being in it for the money? Why, its lil' ol' John Fogerty and his band of merry men.
As you have seen here, I love both bands dearly, so this isn't about who's better at what they respectively do, nor about who is keeping it real or faking things, or who was in it for the money to which degree. It's about how the cultural depiction of these two bands have taken such a different turn despite things not being what they seem to be. Now, to be fair: any Eagles-related acticity from 1994 onwards deserves scorn for its mercenary, in it for the money approach: the corporate events, the pushing concert tickets first over the hundred dollar limit, the endless 'final' tours, etc. And let's not get started on the other CCR.
But yeah, maybe the Dude didn't say it best when he elevated CCR and dismissed the Eagles in one full swoop? Maybe both bands deserve their place as some of the best music their era had to offer? Maybe the discussions about realness and fakeness in rock'n'roll are as real or fake as their subjects? Life is stranger than fiction they say, but it is also a lot more complicated, than that fiction's punch lines. So fuck that lazy-ass Big Lebowski quote, listen to the great rock'n'roll from CCR and the great country rock of early Eagles side by side peacefully...I think we can all abide...unless you are a nihilist and don't believe in anything...but that's a whole different altogether...
Well, and of course you get som goodie with all these thoughts.
ReplyDeleteHere's two soundboard shows
CCR live 1970 in London
https://workupload.com/file/N9zURzQpq3B
and the Eagles at Don Kirshner's Rock Concert
https://workupload.com/file/NY3Djh2azSe
whicch is a bit of an Asylum All-stArs Revues featuring Linda Ronstadt and Jackson Browne in prominent spots. The latter's version of "Your Bright Baby Blues" with the Eagles is possibly the best version of the song, ever.
What's your favorite Jeff Bridges movie?
ReplyDeleteAh, a few points. But, full disclosure, CCR’s my favorite band, and I find the Eagles boring, in general. But just to make it clear that I’m not going into this too prejudiced, 1) I grew up with both, so my assessments are based on lived experience/tastes, not movie quotes or Rolling Stone writers with axes to grind or whatever. 2) One of my favorite singles of the 70s is Hotel California, and one of my three favorite singles of the 80s is Boys Of Summer (the other two being Billie Jean and Under Pressure, and I’m neither a fan of Michael Jackson nor Queen, tho I do own a handful of songs from both; the point being I can not care for an artist but still recognize their abilities).
ReplyDeleteI don’t care where CCR or the Eagles came from, but they’re both California bands, period. If the Eagles didn’t end up in L.A. and that whole context/time, there’d be no Eagles. End of story. I don’t care that musicians seek fame and fortune. America’s a capitalist society – in fact, that’s the way of the whole first world – so the idea of denigrating someone for trying to make a living off their talent is pretty fuckin’ dumb. I don’t know if the Eagles went directions they normally wouldn’t’ve if there weren’t commercial considerations, but I find them generally boring from the get-go and boring to the end, minus some absolutely spanking-great singles (great lyrics, singing, playing, arranging, full-stop). The turn from country rocky to AOR-rocky didn’t seem as abrupt to me as maybe it did to others, but their skills carried over with their changes, so it’s not like they got out of their depth. And the blue-eyed soul of I Can’t Tell You Why, the ominous, jagged sound of Teenage Jail, or the epic reggoid of Hotel California stand, in my opinion, with any of their excellent, early country-rock hits. To say ‘they didn’t care about the music’ is specious and overtly self-contradictory – the very care they put into producing their stuff shows that. My sis got One Of These Nights (the album) when it came out, and it bored the shit out of me (like what I’d heard of its predecessors, minus the hits), tho I can stomach the hits off it now (Perhaps ironically, the most ‘countryish’ of the three – Lyin’ Eyes – being the one I’m most fine with nowadays).
So, to recap, if the Eagles were chasing success, so was everybody else in their league, but at least they could back it up with some indelible songs (Albeit, not in a sufficient ratio for me to consider them top-tier).
CCR cranked out at the rate they did not because John Fogerty was afraid of being forgotten, but because they had the typical contract of the day demanding product (The 70s pretty much started doing away with that). Having said that, I’ll take any CCR album (minus the last, split-duties one) over the entire Eagles catalog, and you can throw in the Eagles solo ventures on top of that (OUCH!!!). I defy anyone to tell me those myriad CCR singles were lesser product, thrown out to see if they’d stick or not. CCR, too, wanted to make a living off their talent. So did Saints Lou Reed and Johnny Rotten, and Sainte Patti Smith, and anybody else in the canon of Coolness.
I don’t care if Fogerty wasn’t from the south (for the record, OBG, your write-up places El Cerrito first in the Bay Area and later in SoCal, but you were right the first time; Cerritos [minus the El] is in SoCal), just like I don’t care that the Eagles weren’t gunfighters in the west or stood on a corner in Winslow, Arizona. What counts, for me, is who cranked out the goods that speak to me, and there’s no contest, there.
C in California
The Fabulous Baker Boys (1989)
ReplyDeleteAuthenticity in popular music is a tricky subject, especially in genres like punk and hip hop where performers accuse each other of being fake. I dislike the Eagles mainly because I think that Don and Glen are two of the worst assholes in an industry full of assholes. (Didn't one of them grow up in Florida?) Being a good person isn't a prerequisite for making good music, but sometimes it's hard to separate the art from the artist. I can enjoy an Eagles song if someone else performs it (like Etta James' version of "Take It To The Limit").
ReplyDeleteJohn Fogerty might be an asshole too, for all I know. In terms of authenticity, you make a good point: he wasn't "Born On The Bayou". "Proud Mary" is also a work of lyrical fiction. But they are great songs. I like the fact that John Fogerty sent a cease & desist letter to the Trump campaign to stop them from playing "Fortunate Son" at rallies. If ever there was a fortunate son, it is Donald.
I've tried, but I don't get the appeal of Lebowski. I like plenty of other Coen Bros movies, and have nothing against Jeff Bridges or any of the other actors. Jeff did a great job in the True Grit remake. There's a funny scene near the end of the latest Knives Out movie that references John Goodman's character in Lebowski.
C, I changed the reference to South Cali, must've got my wires crossed at who I was talking about.
ReplyDeleteYou make some very valid points. The churning out of hits was certainly at least partly to the contract with Fantasy Records, the whole 'John was paranoid of ever dropping out of the charts' comes from Stu Cook, obviously not the most neutral source when discussing Fogerty.
The rift between Fogerty on one side and Cook and Clifford on the other is well known, let's just say that when you push your own brother out of the band because he (the former lead singer back when they were Tommy Fogerty & The Blue Velvets and the early Golliwogs days) couldn't buy a lead vocal to save his life, should probably push Fogerty into asshole territory. The fact that they never fully reconciled before Tom's death and John denied Tom's dying request to play as a band together one last time also further that impression.
But, hey, I said it many times, if we only had nice guys in music, we'd probably have only a tiny percentage of the music we have.
The main point of the text above wasn't really to choose sides, but to show how easily (and in the case of The Big Lebowski, lazily) we assign certain assumptions and characteristics to certain bands which aren't necessarily true.
I've thought about this -- what it's like to be George Harrison in the Beatles, or the rest of CCR in a band with John Fogerty -- e.g., in a band with genius present and, while you benefit greatly from it, you also have aspirations to express your artistic side, too. Now, before someone tells me how great a songwriter George was, I acknowledge that his contributions to the Beatles (as a songwriter) were excellent, overall, but clearly he was not the songwriter that JL & PM were AS A PAIR. As for CCR, it must've stung, on some level, to be told how to play to the arrangement that JF heard in his head, rather than getting to play what you wanted, which I think Ringo (especially) and George got to do (the distinction of their respective playing shines thru Beatles songs). But I see his point -- look what his writing, production, arranging, singing (including harmonies) and playing produced (And, as a side note, it's all the more astounding that he cranked out so much quality on such a consistent level; most bands would kill to produce as many classics in a whole career as CCR did in a few years). It is too bad that some kind of workable compromise didn't happen, and if he indeed told them to do their own songs without his input on that final album, well, I can see why they felt slighted (Then again, would they have liked it if he completely overhauled what were subpar songs so they at least approached the CCR level of quality? Probably not). Nothing in any of the CCR member solo output (or the pre-Golliwogs/CCR output that I've heard suggests the other fellas were unrecognized geniuses, so, selfishly, I guess I'm glad JF ruled the band.
DeleteI can't speak to Tom & John's latter relationship, but if someone asked me to ignore what felt like the fight for my life/sanity (as JF has portrayed it consistently), for the sake of 'old times', I'd probably balk, too.
C in California
The band led by one (or two, in the case of the Beatles) outstanding songwriter and performer who overshadows the other band members is another interesting dynamic.
DeleteC's comment reminded me of an article I read recently about Pavement -- one which ironically also referenced CCR and the Eagles!
"Creedence Clearwater Revival comes up a lot in (Pavement) interviews... Like John Fogerty, (Stephen) Malkmus towered over his bandmates as the dominant creative force. But he could never quite get the same sound without his bandmates (as much as I like Malkmus’ Jicks era). What I mean is a certain looseness that feels a little lazy but in fact requires an instinctual swing and an understated, almost subliminal tightness."
This quote comes from #37 in Steven Hyden's list of his 40 favorite Pavement songs. The list is prefaced with a Joe Walsh interview clip that (according to Hyden) says more about Pavement than it does about the Eagles. The whole article is well-written and worth a read, even if you aren't a Pavement diehard. (Hyden also calls Allison Ellwood’s 2013 documentary History Of The Eagles "one of the greatest films ever made.")
https://uproxx.com/indie/pavement-best-songs-ranked/
Sorry, here's another relevant quote: "It’s a dynamic that isn’t unique to Pavement, but Pavement is one of the better examples in rock history. (Sting’s relationship with the other members of The Police also comes to mind.) It’s the one where you have a single individual who overwhelmingly has the most power to decide whether the band gets to exist or not. And most of the other people are okay with that, though there is usually one other person who is slightly less okay with it, in part because he once had more parity with the “in charge” guy.
Delete"(Malkmus) is very funny in conversation and also completely inscrutable on an emotional level. And it seems like being in a band with him, off and on, for 35 years is a similar experience. In a fantastic Stephen Malkmus profile published by GQ in 2010, (Scott) Kannberg (who co-founded Pavement) talks about Malkmus “like he’s describing someone distant — someone he thinks about yet barely knows.” He then follows with a casually devastating quote (from Kannberg): “Maybe Pavement is just not as important to him as it is to me. That’s probably all it is. But I’ve come to accept that.”
I should check that out, I'm not a huge Pavement fan, but I am a fan of Steven Hyden's writing.
DeleteThat last quote from Kannberg reminds me of something Chris Hillman said, that he worked on and off with Gene Clark for more than 30 years, but never really knew him, unril he read the book for which he provided that quote.
As for CCR, I guess it really depends with whom you want to throw in your lot and believe. Tough with Tom dead and everyone else having an agenda.
DeleteConcerning Fogerty, I'll just leave this quote from Raylan Givens in Justified.
"If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole.
If you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole".
Have you seen any of the Demotivational Posters? They're parodies of the motivational poste cliches. My favorite is similar to that quote. It's a picture of a broken chain, with the caption "The only constant in all your failed relationships is you."
DeleteHyden's list of the best music of 2025 is very funny. The AV Club used to have a lot of talented reviewers.
https://uproxx.com/indie/steven-hyden-favorite-albums-2025/
That's true, during the good old days theA.V. Club coudn't be beat for one-stop pop culture. Thye have thankfullu dragged themselves out of the valley of dreck they were circa 2018-2024 were everything seemed to be written by unpaid and unqualified interns or A.I. They now have the occasional article or review worth reading.
DeleteThat list is indeed great, with several bon mots. Of course I didn't recognize a single thing on it, but his write-ups made me want to check out a couple of those albums.
Oh, Jonder, now you've done it. I've spent the lat hour going through diverse Hyden Lists at Uproxx which is its own category. Damn, I missed the man's witty writing.
DeleteHere's a list that actually works for this thread:
https://uproxx.com/indie/creedence-clearwater-revival-best-songs-ranked-list/
And while it's difficult to choose just one, and I really have to think about my own question, I'd say that Bridges' filmography is one of the best in terms of consistency and quality performances.
ReplyDeleteSo, some favorite (and possibly underrated) Bridges performances:
ReplyDeleteHell Or High Water (2016)
The Door In The Floor (2004)
Bad Company (1972)
The Fisher King (1991)